Ok, time for a preview! This is one of the interviews that I’ve done that are ending up in issue #2. Since I don’t want to post partial interviews or something, I’m just dropping the whole thing here. Let’s see… When the first postings about The Icemen from Marco surfaced on the internet I kinda had my doubts, those posts were really negative. They did get me interested though and when I heard the “new” Icemen 7” I just had to get in touch with Marco. So I did. Turned out he’s a great guy, as you can read in the following conversation from February/March 2009.
Hey Marco, first of all, best wishes for 2009. Made any plans for the new year yet?
Thank You. Mostly career goals with ongoing projects. Especially one of the screenplays I’ve been developing.
I want to talk about those screenplays later on, but let’s talk about The Icemen first. You recently released a “new” 7”. Loved it! The reactions I’ve seen are really positive as well. What’s your own opinion on the release, satisfied with the outcome?
Thanks again. We are pretty happy with how it has been received. Considering that “The Iceman” was our first ever recording from way back in 1984 I was pleased with how that song came out. We were so young and inexperienced but Noah did a great job with the recording, so even though there were some problems with transferring the analog tapes to digital all these years later I still think it sounds good. I was far less happy with “It’ll Be Your Grave”, for some reason that recording’s sounds are of far lower quality. At the end of the day I do feel good about the quality of the release from an overall standpoint.
Who were involved in the process of this release? I know Noah came up with the idea so he’s involved. Was Mackie as well?
Initially Noah had the idea of mastering the R.I.P. EP and re-releasing it, that release had never been mastered so sound could be improved now. I suggested that if we were to work with The Icemen after so long why not put out some of the many unreleased tracks we recorded through the years.
I did speak with Mackie during the process but he was only involved in consultation. The tracks had long since been recorded so it was up to Noah to mix and post pro and for me to handle the art, design and overall production.
“We even had a fan killed at one of our CBGB performances.”
When did the plan for this release come up? And did everything go according to plan?
It was a long process, far longer than I imagined it would be. It was May 2007 when Noah first mentioned he would like to do some work with our recording archives. Then time passed as we discussed what songs and what we would need to do to make it happen.
It wasn’t until early 2008 that we got our tapes to West West Side Studios for analog to digital transfers. Noah has worked with them before on other projects he’s produced and is friends with Alan Douche so we trusted them with what was a delicate and risky process, tapes being as old as they are. We brought them everything we have – several 2″ reels along with some 1″ as well. Icemen recordings spanning 1984-1993 as well as tapes from our later project “Shadow” from 1999-2002.
There were more delays until Noah mixed the two selected songs in summer 2008. By that point we had already decided to release it with Patrick Kitzel’s Reaper Records and I had sent him completed art and design.
We wanted a Halloween release, manufacturing delays and problems occurred so we just barely got it out by end of October 2008. Well over a year in the making so things did not go exactly according to plan but in the end the release turned out they way I had initially envisioned, so all good.
A year? That’s actually pretty fast haha. I’ve seen it take longer before. Anyway, will this be the start of more releases or maybe even shows? Or is it just a one-off release?
As mentioned we now have every Icemen recording digitally archived and in ProTools so more releases are a possibility. Most songs would require additional tracking and overdubs to complete, especially vocals.
The vocal tracks vary from Marco to Carl to Gary Lee and are mostly unacceptable. As you can see it would take some work and in addition we would need to find a new singer.
As for live, even more difficult. Noah is busy out on the west coast, Mackie as you know is constantly touring with bands and I have my hands full with career so finding a way would be a real challenge. It is tempting though, I had a conversation with Mack where he said we could have fun so who knows.
Incomplete you say, how about doing a discography and releasing them as they are? Together with a remastered Rest In Peace or something? Not an option?
No way. The Iceman release was an unique situation since it was our first recording, it was originally intended as a single, and was a completed recording we felt comfortable releasing it at the very least for nostalgic reasons.
Most of the other songs are different animals and not ready to be unleashed. I think you would understand, did you not say you weren’t thrilled with some of the unreleased recordings you heard in the state that they’re in? They need new vocals, overdubs, mixing and mastering.
The R.I.P. EP was never mastered but a remix and mastering wouldn’t be sufficient, any future releases, including re-releases will have new vocals. Furthermore, I would prefer us to find a singer rather than do the vocals myself and vocally those are the only options we would consider.
Yeah I wasn’t too thrilled with those unreleased recordings. Those that have Gary Lee singing. How were the reactions to those tracks? You know my opinion, but I’m curious as of how other people reacted to the tracks?
I would ask you if you mean you do not like the vocal tracks or the songs as a whole?
Thus far the unreleased roughs we’ve had up – Back Again, You Will Be Mine, Ritual – received mixed reviews. From what I can tell most of the rigid hardcore kids hated the vocals but seemed to appreciate the songs from a music standpoint, while another group seemed to enjoy them altogether. Came across several fans on Myspace who had added them as their profile song.
It’s always been this way with us, hardcore kids protesting that we’re not “hardcore”, metal fans not always sure what to make of us but generally less limiting.
I would like to point out that we only uploaded these songs after some debate. Not only were they unmixed but Gary Lee’s vocals were first take auditions, no rehearsal dry runs. Not at all planned as release ready, we just decided to share so we did feel some disappointment they couldn’t be just taken for what they were.
It was the vocals that didn’t really did much for me indeed. Not that they were awful, I don’t know. Musically it sounded good. Doesn’t has anything to do with it being hardcore or not by the way, who cares, I’m not that narrow-minded. As for people not taking it for what it was, I think it’s just that it was the first “new” or “unheard” thing people heard you know. You guys made some great stuff back in the day so when people see there’s new stuff to check out, they have expectations… Know what I’m saying?
I hear you. That was what made us hesitant to put the raw tracks up unfinished rather than wait and take time to refine them. Kind of a double-edged sword, that is why hopefully any future releases will likely have been completed and polished to our satisfaction. I am appreciative that people have such expectations for us, we too feel the need to aim high. I will say that my opinion is that the later songs, a few of which you have heard, are the best songs we have. Hope to find a way to give them the attention they need in the studio.
“Hopefully soon enough these explainations will no longer be needed.”
More generally, how do you look back on your days in the Icemen? What will you always remember from that time?
That’s a tough question, how I look back has changed through the years. When we released Carl from the band we had reached a point of frustration that was suffocating. As some time passed unsuccessful in finding a singer acceptable to us we realized there were other undesirable aspects as well.
It’s a shame there are so many negative memories but this is the truth. A part of why we returned is to set the record straight and take care of unfinished business. In some ways it is full circle as once again we can appreciate, although there have been a few ugly cyber encounters to remind us why we left in the first place. Don’t get me wrong, there were some good memories, playing with my boys Noah and Mackie both friends from youth and great musicians was a blessing. I do remember the magic when it was right.
Positive mental attitude Marco, good. Something you can forgot for the next question haha, sorry. You said “other undesirable aspects”? Wanna elaborate on that?
The “scene” as it were contained so much negativity. Yes there were some good people and there were some good times but by the end those seemed too far and few between. There were constant petty rivalries and trash talking between bands. The ever increasing violence at shows- we even had a fan killed at one of our CBGB performances.
Divisiveness between people, bigotry and the myopic viewpoints of their “scenes” and movements. My personal beliefs would probably be considered radical by many so I’m OK with progressive movements but when kids start preaching dogma then I say go fuck yourself.
Someone killed at one of your shows? I never heard that? When, why, how did that happen? Damn…
CBGB, this tragedy occurred toward the later days and yet another of the negative experiences I alluded to. Don’t know who the kid was or much about how it happened but clearly there was a portion of our supporters who were quite violent, at that point we were temporarily banned from CB’s, even though the staff there liked us they were worried about the results. I used to rate our shows there by ambulances, nil ambulances = failure, 1 success, 2 outstanding. Theory was if there weren’t any medics outside then our audience was not going off proper and our music and performance wasn’t sufficiently inspiring.
The death was another revelation, I wanted to move people to deeply but not to violence and so that was a time for much introspection. The conclusions led us ever closer to making changes, that was certainly not what I played music for.
That’s some heavy shit Marco… You said on multiple occasions that you don’t consider yourself part of the hardcore scene. Did you try to break away from it with the Icemen? I mean, did you play on all rock or metal shows as well?
Again I must answer your question with a question- what is the “hardcore scene”? Noah, Mackie and I played music. I never wrote songs with the intention of fitting into a scene. We definitely wanted to expand our audience and we played on some metal shows and at times shows combined what would be called a hardcore audience with metal audience. I never understood the division, music should bring people together.
I totally agree with you. I don’t want to give a definition of the ‘hardcore scene’ but you know what I’m aiming at right? People being active, doing bands, zines, labels, shows etc. To me ‘hardcore’ is more about the attitude, the D.I.Y. part than the music. But you already answered my question more or less.
You are presenting the positive concepts of hardcore, albeit in a highly idyllic light. Positive concepts that were often a minority during the times I recall.
“Did you trademark the name? Well we did.”
Anyway, as everyone probably knows by now there’s quite a bit of bad blood between you and Carl. When did you know it was time to part ways with Carl? Was there are a particular event or…? And how did he react?
The bad blood from his dismissal and the events that followed were like the last straw for me. That whole chapter epitomizes the negative aspects of what the hardcore scene had become for us. Fed up with that negativity, narrow mindedness, back stabbing combined with the desire for musical growth is why after a while we decided to no longer continue to fight the theft and degradation of The Icemen. Had I known the damage the impostors would do perhaps we would have pursued it further but we didn’t want to continue lingering in negativity.
It is unfortunate that since our return we must once again deal with that but in attempting to repair whatever legacy The Icemen may have and in setting the record straight it has been necessary to speak long buried truths which are not all pleasant. Hopefully soon enough these explanations will no longer be needed. Having tended to those matters I hope we will then move forward with positive energy.
To answer the why and how of Carl, there was no one single event, more a culmination of frustration that built over time. It was not personal, back then I considered Carl a friend so in that sense only was it a difficult decision. Overall we had no choice if we ever wanted to progress both musically and professionally. We felt trapped by where we were and our growth had stagnated. My songwriting was progressing but as long as we had a “frontman” and not a singer we would not be able to evolve in the musical direction we desired. It was frustrating writing lyrics knowing the song’s melodic elements would never be fully realized. Compounding these creative limitations was that we truly wanted to take it the distance and while we had some legitimate interest from major labels and promoters they mirrored our thoughts “Very interested but not with that singer” was a quote I remember well from the A&R rep who had signed Metallica. Trapped musically and professionally it went from difficult decision to no choice at all.
As for Carl’s reaction he was of course very upset, so upset he was delusional screaming at me that he was The Icemen and so on. Keep in mind he wrote absolutely nothing, his contribution beyond “frontman” was booking most of our gigs, musical contributions nil. In any case things had taken their ugly course and so now history.
What was Carl’s reaction to those remarks from A&R reps? Did you tell him?
No, not sure how constructive that would have been. We did speak with him about wanting to infuse more melodic elements into our songs and that we wanted him to try and do that with us.
Did you ever talk to Carl after the split? Did you get a response from him on the new release?
Not much beyond his enraged phone call and haven’t heard from him in many years, so no word on the release. The scabs he recruited to impersonate the band have occasionally posted on message boards and such with insults and revisionist history in support of Carl and their crimes.
What made you bury The Icemen back then? Was it impossible to find a new vocalist, did you guys simply consider firing Carl the end or was it because Carl started using the name?
To answer your question a large part was as explained, the musical frustration. We actually auditioned quite a few singers but couldn’t find what we wanted. As time passed, my writing no longer restricted, the music changed and at some point the desire to leave the negativity behind and move forward with creative freedom had the effect that we let go.
As tiring I find revisiting negativity I am compelled to point out that Carl was not just “using our name”, he was fraudulently impersonating The Icemen, stealing our songs and artwork none of which he had any part in creating. Plagiarism, theft, call it what you will but “using” is far too gentle a term.
True. I can imagine I would have been pissed (to say the least too). How was your first reaction when you heard about the fact that The Icemen were playing again and you didn’t know anything about it?
I found out by chance when I saw an advert in The Village Voice paper that listed The Icemen at CBGB. I thought “Must be a mistake, were not playing”. Went down to CB’s to talk to the bookers and it must have been just after sound check as the venue was basically empty. Went back to the dressing room and there were Carl’s friends who roadied for us but no Carl. I asked what was going on and they started popping shit about how they were The Icemen now. Of course I was enraged and asked how they could imagine that when I had written all the songs, in fact created everything and their answer was “Did you trademark the name? Well we did”. So theirs was a calculated plan to steal my creation, a conscious and deliberate theft. The rest as we say is history.
Fortunately they were too inept to follow through and today The Icemen is a registered service mark owned by yours truly, as for the songs they were already protected even back then, I always submitted them for copyright once they were “complete”. I would say that these technicalities are worth noting for any band or musician out there lest you find yourself in a similar situation.
Last question about the Icemen. Was there any band before the Icemen, or was that your first band? When and why did you decide you wanted to start a band?
The Icemen was my first band. Noah and I grew up together downtown in Westbeth, we met Mack in high school and began jamming after school. After I had written enough songs for us to perform live we got another kid from the neighborhood John Gamble to sing and off we went.
Okay, one more… Now you mention that name, I’ve read on Wikipedia that the first recordings you guys did were with him on vocals. (“The Iceman” and “You Let It Go To Your Head”). Is that version of “The Iceman” on the new 7” that first recording with different vocals or… And what happened to that second track? Sounds like good discography material Marco haha.
These are the same original recordings, just used a different vocal track from the session. Back then and in fact through most of the years I would often lay down a vocal track first, usually as a guide.
“Vin Diesel hired me as a screenwriter”
Reaper Records released the new 7”. One of the coolest labels in hardcore at the moment if you ask me. How is the collaboration?
It’s truly been a pleasure working with Patrick. He was one of the first people to start corresponding with us when we first came out of the shadows with our official myspace page in February 2007. Early on he expressed his interest in doing something with us and through many conversations I got to thinking he was the right person at the right time for us to work with. Hearing how he loved us from way back and how we inspired him from his True Blue days in Germany made it an easy choice. Great guy and since have become friends both with him and his old bandmate René Natzel from True Blue.
Nice guys, I interviewed Patrick for the previous issue and René should be answering some questions for this issue (edit: this never happened). It’s a small world. Anyway, in 1999 you started Shadow. What did you do in the meantime?
I continued to write music and as Mackie became increasingly busy with other bands, Noah and I began to play with other drummers in our studio. Pokey from Leeway for a minute, then our old friend Amit Shamir who has played on and off with the Cro Mags. The music continued to change and by that point it was no longer The Icemen, when Noah and I began playing with Lez Warner of the Cult we had become Shadow.
I have always been interested in multiple creative forms of expression and around that time I had begun acting as well. Was studying and performing in some graduate films in addition to a couple of indies. I believe it’s natural to explore new avenues if one really loves creative expression, there are connections between all arts.
I had gone from art school to working illustrator to music and lyrics and always had visual ideas for my band concept as a whole. Would have been fun to make the videos I had planned but in any case film was always something that interested me. By 1997 I had a small part in Vin Diesel’s indie feature “Strays”. The film went to the Sundance Festival, Vin is an old friend so we were rocking the festival together and by then I was very interested in a career in film.
So you tried out some different drummers, how did it feel when Mackie shifted his interest from Icemen to other bands?
It was frustrating but at the same time I respected his desire and determination to make a living as a working musician. We always seemed to be sharing his time with other bands so this was nothing new.
So how active is Shadow at the moment? I don’t see any shows listed?
Sadly not active at all. Lez and the singer Paul are busy pros, we were writing, recording, shopping to our industry contacts but things just ran their course. There’s a good and bad to reaching that point, we had a great time playing but in many ways it was all business. The innocent days of “hey we’ll play lots of shows and build a following” were a distant memory, we were no longer kids with that kind of luxury, these guys were working musicians so it was “get a record deal”. Had a few nibbles from majors like Atlantic, we were close but it just never panned out.
In 2002 I was offered a great opportunity in Hollywood and although it tore my heart out to let Shadow go, I was determined to make a legitimate living solely with my creativity, no more bullshit side jobs so off I went.
So you’re currently not doing any band?
Only The Icemen project stuff that we’ve been working on.
You mentioned films and acting. How did your first steps into that world feel? I take it you gotta be pretty confident to be an actor? Do you consider yourself confident?
You need to be confident to get on stage with a band too don’t you? Any kind of performance requires confidence and courage. I am certainly confident however I am also quite critical of myself, I think that is necessary for any artist to continue creating, continue growing.
One of the hardest things with The Icemen was that we rehearsed so rarely, just got together occasionally or when I had a new song for Mack to learn. That lack of preparation made it more difficult on stage and we survived mostly through the intuition that Noah, Mack and I had developed through years together.
Preparation is essential for confidence in any endeavor. Learned that better than ever in my acting experiences, when you are prepared then you are free to take your performance to another level without worrying about the things which should be unconscious. I drew many parallels between acting and performing live music.
“My closest friends call me The Count”
You’re right. Acting gets stored forever though and a live performance is a bit more temporary (unless audio/video taped of course..) Oh well. So what do you do in daily life? I thought you were a designer but I guess I’m wrong?
No, in 2002 Vin Diesel hired me as a screenwriter for his production company called “One Race”. In the last couple of years I do more freelance so have been working professionally in film since ’02.
If by designer you meant art or web, the only things I had done for many years was related to my bands. Recently however I did cover art for a band called “World Gone Mad” in Belgium on a trial basis. I’ve had many people contact me through myspace asking to hire me for art and to this point I have resisted, too little time to spare. Lately however I’ve considered taking on the occasional art job if I can find the time and if the situation will work.
World Gone Mad is cool. How was it to do art for a band again? Probably strange to do art for another band for the first time?
Yes I learned a lot from that experience. One hurdle for me is that I am more versatile in artistic styles than people know and of course they expect “Icemen” style art. Obvious since it was The Icemen art that attracted them in the first place as is the case with others who contact me. It is very important to me that I maintain The Icemen’s stylistic individuality, that imagery and ambience I had put so much into through the years so clearly I am not interested in cloning that work for other bands.
Will certainly communicate better with whomever I work with next, in the end I am glad I did it though. The cover art looks good, the guys in the band are good people and I’m happy for them they have their release coming out.
Nice. So when we started this interview you mentioned screenplays. Let’s talk about that now, anything we should know about?
Wrote a couple of originals for Vin’s company but they have yet to be produced. One was a medieval period piece the other a swords and sorcery story. Much of my work has been what is known in Hollywood as “Ghostwriting”, that is uncredited re-writes and how I make much of my earnings.
The last couple of years, lots of hardcore bands from back in the days reformed. Some people thought it was stupid, some loved it. In most cases I was part of the latter bunch since it gave me the chance to see some of those bands live. Did you see any of those shows and if so, what did you think? I know you’re not into most hardcore bands, but I could see you check out the Bad Brains or maybe Leeway?
No I haven’t, with one exception which you guessed. The Bad Brains were a big influence on me as well as Noah and Mackie from the moment we met them all those years ago when they first moved to NY. I hadn’t been to that kind of a show in many years but went to one last November (2008). Went to meet Kitzel and René, bumped into a lot of old friends so that was cool. Had a good talk with Gary (Doc), Phil Burnett who had worked with us quite a bit was doing sound so was fun, enjoyed the show.
So not much hardcore. But what kinda music do you listen to? What’s on your playlist?
That really depends on my mood, big surprise right. There are contextual situations like in a club or at a party where I might groove to music I normally would not choose but for the most part I have always loved rock, metal or classical music. I can enjoy many kinds of music but those are far and away my favorites.
Something else, I just remember this… In the LIFERS interview you mentioned living in an “artist building” in your youth. What’s an artist building? As simple as a building where artists live? Probably a stupid question, but I wondered about it when I read the interview.
Yes, it’s a unique case in NY of apartments for people in the arts. My father is an artist and my mother a school teacher and jazz singer. When my parents moved in there at the end of the 1960’s there were some pretty impressive artists living there, Noah’s father jazz great Gil Evans, photographer Diane Arbus, coreographer/dancer Merce Cunningham who had his studio on the top floor, puppeteer Ralph Lee who invented New York’s Village Halloween Parade which used to start in our building’s courtyard before it became too large an event. Interesting building with a lot of history.
Cool. Good to see the creativity of parents living on through their children too. What did they think of your choices? Playing music and now being a screenwriter?
Being artists themselves they were a big influence and were in many ways supportive. They are however both far more practical than I and are often horrified by my approach to career and what is often a general lack of stability. They have made it clear they see my ability, it’s my inconsistencies they find maddening – as do I.
Now we’re talking about your parents… How was your childhood? “Hard times” and “Street justice” or more like living the good life?
I would say somewhere in between. My parents didn’t earn a ton of money but they provided for my brother and I, although Gaby did have to wear my hand me down clothes. So we had food and clothes but we were definitely not wealthy. The only luxury is that we did travel internationally occasionally since my father is not from the USA so I was lucky as a child to know it is a wide world.
The hard times I would say intensified with adolescence as with most humans.
Drugs, fights, cruelty, etc. things that are greatly amplified in a place like New York City so those were trials I had to endure, flames to pass through.
It shapes you as a person. Any particular events growing up in New York City you remember?
Too many to list, as I alluded to before growing up downtown Manhattan, school in the Bronx, there were countless encounters, pitfalls, challenges. As a Scorpio I had particular trials related to a natural proclivity for passion, indulgence, anger and vengeance. I will share with you one story, something intimately personal, that as a very young man I went to the edge and looked down with cocaine. Totally off the rail, I moved the occasional Kilo from place to place and had my cut, lucky to be alive really and proud to have come through on my own, no rehab, nothing, just strength of will and intellect. Went cold turkey right around the time The Icemen started performing live and first entered the studio. Trial by fire like that, you learn a lot about yourself, I certainly am stronger for it. And just to be clear I am absolutely not straight edge, I especially love French Wine and German Beer but drugs have no appeal to me.
Passion and indulgence is an interesting thing, I’ve chewed up and spit out a lot in my life and some things no longer interest but the few that survive are tested through time immemorial. There are some wondrous gifts in life that will always be there, notably Women and Wine.
Heavy stuff Marco, thanks for sharing that. Let’s dig a bit deeper. What’s the thing nobody knows about Marco Abularach?
There are things that only my close friends, my inner circle know but if you mean literally what nobody knows then it’s safe to say I want it that way. Assuming you mean those who don’t know me well, I am fascinated by world history especially medieval and ancient as well as the two world wars. From youth that fascination gave me a great interest in seeing the world and I am a relentless traveler. It’s a full on passion especially Europe, I’ve been spending more and more time there both for work and personal and hope to make that the majority of my time eventually. Other passions include food and wine, obviously the arts, and last but most certainly not least the fairer sex, just magical.
As for something personal, my closest friends call me “The Count” or just “Count” like Count Marco. That goes way, way back as I have always been nocturnal whether having fun or working on being creative always kept late hours and late to rise. The Count was a joke poking fun at me spun from Count Dracula and it has stuck all these years.
“I have an affinity with older gods and religions”
History indeed, WO II especially. I can keep watching documentaries about it. It’s strange. Horrible things happened back. But the psychology behind it interests me, the fact so many people were manipulated and how… What’s it that attracts you to it?
Certainly a part of it, psychology of mankind’s history and different eras definitely fascinates me. WW II and middle ages in particular feel terribly familiar to me, not just intellectually but emotionally as well, often feel I really don’t belong here. As a teenager I started quite a book collection covering WW II, and more recently The Great War as I have been researching for a 1914 script I am writing.
Something else, are you religious or spiritual?
I think the best way to answer would be spiritual. But now you’re digging deep, I am likely to offend large numbers of people, my beliefs and politics are opposite mainstream and my answers will likely not be gentle.
I have disdain for organized religion, more a medium for people to be manipulated and used, a tool for distributing propaganda than spiritual. In particular the religions of man which have long since outlived their usefulness, particularly the big three Christianity, Judaism, Islam. Leading masses into ignorance and war, how many millions have died in the name of these religions? How many crimes against humanity continue to be inflicted under the pretense of “God’s Will”? Ignorance is the norm.
What is needed is a love of earth and life, if you are one that needs contemporary symbolism then I would say older gods and religions would serve this world better now. From that standpoint I suppose most would categorize me as pagan. I am also interested in other more metaphysical spirituality such as astrology and the occult.
Don’t worry. I’m from the Netherlands, we’re not that “christ minded” over here. Well at least I’m not. Totally get what you’re saying about that part. As for astrology, I figured as much when you said “As a scorpio” in an earlier answer. I’m personally not religious, I think there could be something, but I just have no idea what. I’m always interested in other people their believes. Why paganism Marco?
A pagan is literally defined as “One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion” so by that definition it would be fair to call me such. Sure I was baptized as a baby, forced to attend Sunday School for a brief time but that would be the extent of my formal indoctrination into such guilt ridden, manipulative and destructive religions of man. As mentioned before, were I to go deeper I have an affinity with older gods and religions that did not elevate man above all other life nor above mother earth.
Ok to end this off… How do you want people to remember you? I mean, let’s hope it’s not happening anytime soon, but when you pass away, what do you want people to say?
That I was a true friend.
That I truly and deeply moved people emotionally, that I affected people’s lives.
Good choice. Thanks a lot for your time Marco, take care!
Great questions Pim, challenging and interesting.Thank You.